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potatohead theatre
it's impossible to respond to people when they remove or protect their posts, in the stream of an' 'exchange' of ideas . when someone disagrees with you they are not silencing you. they disagree with you. period. you have the power however to silence them within the context of your space on the web. which you have done, as is your right. the path of the coward, i am sorry to say, or one who would rather be the one doing the silencing of anyone who does not agree with them. then they get to be the victim.
furthermore when someone presents historical fact to point out flaws in your reasoning ,or in this case conjecture, concerning a space in time so removed from our lives today that it's impossible for anyone to safely say what they would do, it is not silencing or abuse if done with facts, precision and in the spirit of EDUCATION and without hatred- all of which i feel i did. we could all be the wiser for studying history with an eye to the vanquished and exploited, not to blame them but rather to see wherein others have perpetrated evil against their fellow humans . when you characterize an entire people because of their collective suffering as not smart enough to know what to do to save themselves, don't be surprised if their desendants WHO ARE NOT SELF LOATHING take it ' poorly' and object. how did those stupid jews manage to walk into those ovens? they could have ....etc etc. should have could have would have- it's irrelevant what you or i would have done in 1845 ireland or even 1930s germany. it happened. it was wrong. they did not have the options wenow have. you can smear the victims all you'd like eeven if so very slightly-it's a common practise done from safety of a modern world with a 2 second attention span filled with people who can't find ireland on a map after 12 years of an american education and have substituted grandstanding and screams of injustice anytime anyone has the audacity to think otherwise or insist on fact and history instead of histrionics.

so as to to not be shut up i present:

mr. mittens and the potato famine or why didn't those thick fucking micks pick up a fucking fishing pole when their bloody frigging potato crop failed.

enjoy. i only wish i could present it in cats head theatre... or with MR AND MRS POTATOHEAD!!!

question( say it like destiny's child, please)?: why didn't the irish fish instead of starve to death- they are an island after all.
mr. mittens :
although perhaps you do not mean it, you appear glib to anyone who knows the history of the irish potato famine. you are blaming the VICTIMS and making light of what had become a near genocide of the irish people at the hands of england. i'm irish in part and celtic in whole( scottish and french) and it's not like we haven't heard it before- thick micks too drunk and stupid to fish. a million irish were purposely starved to death. i have a difficult time making light of it.
i don't know if you have ever seen the coast of ireland, but its not exactly a picturesque sandy beach you can go down to with a pole , a pair of cut offs on and a 6 pack and load up on fish. it is rocky, craigy and not exactly bahamas weather. any fish are located far off the coast " in water too deep and dangerous for the little cowhide-covered irish fishing boats...starving fishermen pawned their nets and tackle to buy food for their families" . do you or have you ever seen someone begging for food? do you ever suggest, because we're on the coast, they can get themselves a lobster trap and go to it?
the irish were kept in a state of middle ages type serfdom- stuck as tenant farmers on lands they could be evicted from at whim- lands owned almost entirely by the english. there was no room for advancement- any improvements made to these lands by the farmer belonged to the landowner. the penal laws enacted after england disbanded the irish parliment and made the country entirely subject to the crown were directed soley against the catholic irish, over 80 % of the population. they were not allowed to own land, vote, attend school,possess weapons nor pratice their religion. they were virtually slaves. england effectively created an entire nation of paupers kept, through legislation , poor and subdued. i can't imagine there was much time for a trip to the seashore when you lived in a hut, had no access to money and probably owned no form of transportation and for hundreds of years were kept on the brink fo starvation.boats, fishing tackle and nets cost money. ireland had a barter economy at the time.
potatos were actually the optimum crop for growth in ireland which had rocky soil and a wet rather colder weather. it gave the greatest yield for the least tending on the least amount of land and provided the most nutriants. only a portion of ireland is very ariable and yet it was the most densely populated part of western europe per inch.
they were required to grow other grains on their farms ( they were forced to do so- these grains they could not keep and they were shipped to england BY LAW. there were riots at the docks when the fucking famine was going full steam and the goddamn british wouldn't let ireland keep these grains to feed their dying population.) they were tenant farmers- they were told what to grow- they had no choice and no money with which to avail themselves even of a choice of something other.
england also kept in force the Corn Laws which were intended to keep the price of british grown grains high while preventing cheaper grains form america and india out of british possessions. these foreign affordable grains could have saved ireland, which was the poorest country in western world. the one man in british parliment who suggested repealing them because of the famine was treated with contempt and ridicule.
like most of the irish of the time who survived my mother's family came to nyc . to this day i have no taste for fish and am allergic to shellfish. today ireland is in better financial shape than fucking england- ah ha . stupid fucking roastbeefs.i am not ashamed of my heritage- we survived despite outrageous odds and a smoldering prejudice that followed us to anglosaxon america. everyone else's tragedies are always more easily solved by those with the safety and distance to comfort themselves in the idea that they, of course, would know what was the right ,most effective thing to do. facts are always helpful in this armchair quarterbacking. there are plenty of facts about the potato famine on the web and from people who still feel and live it's malingering after effects.

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I didn't bloody ask it to be mean. I asked it because I saw something on television relating to it, and it got me thinking about it.

I took the damn post down because I felt like a jackass for even asking, later on; due to the fact that you lashed out at me. I never meant to be negative against you or anyone else to begin with. It was an innocent question.

You're being a real meanie. :(

i thought your post ignorant- not you-the post. there is a difference. i did not lash out at you. i did not call you names or imply anything other than you sounded glib about something very very serious and that it could easily give offence. i found it gave me offence and i addressed 1) why they couldn't physically fish and 2)what were some of the historical facts that put the entire country in a position so devastating- a devastation that has lingered on in ireland itself through the 20thc.

facts are not mean- they are facts. they do not have a disposition by definition. that you don't like them because you feel they make you feel like a 'jackass' reflects not upon history but upon you. i never thought for a moment you were a jackass.and although i admit i was RATHER offended and a bit perplexed and took your statement for its face value- why couldn't an entire nation figure out how to eat fish like they were apes alone in a kitchen with a can and an opener-and i was not feeling all cuddly and sweet-( why should i. it's like tossing out the word nigger and being pissedor hurt someone takes you to task for it. why can the irish be caracterized as natural dopes and we're not suppose to go,' ah wait a minute...') and was annoyed but not angry.
if you know the history of slaves in america you dont throw around the N word with people you are not on a very friendly, personal basis with. treating the potato famine fix as a slam dunk if you were there was rather audacious...my grandfather worked himself into the grave and so did his father to feed their families- they would have done anything to feed their children. they learned that devotion from their ancestors who fled a country that was systematically murdering them due to their race and religion. i know that they survived shows they did everything possible to save their family because i am alive here today. you made light whether unintentionally or not of their struggle and ultimate survival. jesus- people used to eat corpses ok- it was that bad. they are not losers who didnt know which end of the pole went in the water. theyre heros.
i am not a mean person. i realize i can be curt and blunt. i do not like when other people are marginalized-any reading of just my lj will show that. the mean are the people who could have saved ireland it's vilest darkest hour but instead stood by and aided or outright abetted the deaths of 1 million men, women and children and forced a native people to flee their own land in order to eat.
it would behoove us all to learn before we assume then we'd never feel we'd stepped in it. ive often found that even when i make mistakes i learn something and that is valuable in itself even if i feel i've been or look foolish.

You don't know me from Adam, and now you're calling me a hater? I don't get it. If you knew me well, and then called me this, fine. I'd accept that, but right now all you are doing is creating drama. It's really shitty, and you simply misunderstood me in the first place.

Sorry for asking an innocent question.

it was not an innocent question- so you can feel all victimy and hurt now in the aftermath. your question was phrased in a mirthful manner about a decidedly un-mirthful event- the cruel subjugation of a native population i am a descendant of. you seem just miffed i pointed it out and more so probably that i reposted it. they are, after all,my words and i will use them as i see fit. i dutifully removed any references to who you are and make no attempt to identify you .

it is the bare facts of the irish potato famine that make your ' query' belittling. i assumed that focusing on the magnitude of what happened would show you how flippant your question could seem. apparently all you can see is not the what and why of the response your question elicited in me but how it made you ' look' and feel. it's not really about you- it's about the suffering of a entire people being taken lightly . 1 million people starving to death is not as significant or important as how we feel about being confronted with the things we might say or do that are hurtful or just uniformed?

that you responded to my original post repeatedly and locked me out of responding back tells me all i have to know about you, frankly. i should shut up and not make you feel a certain way. i would have responded in a direct, non abusive manner but you would not allow it, effectively shutting me up. my only option was to repost because it really is an important discussion about a whole host of things i find significant.i did not repost it to make you feel bad. i have no control over your feelings- you do. i have no desire to make you feel or appear foolish. i called you glib, not hateful or stupid. your glibness. however, is possible not because of any hatred you may or may not bear but rather is possible through the historical hatred that made the irish victims and further subjected them to prejudice and discrimination in america. every person who tells a thick mick joke and sort of half believes it is not necessarily filled with hate but it is that hatred from the past that made the telling of such a joke possible and allows us to understand the joke.

i do not dislike you but i question your response to all this- i would not have taken it so seriously if you were not someone i liked. it is not creating ' drama' to exchange in dialogue free of personal vindictiveness. it is rather creating drama to behave as the victim and the crucified and the one being denied ' free speech' when no such thing occcured. i have not removed you from this post-although i could easily do so. i have not blocked you from responding to this post, although i could easily do so. you were and are not lacking the freedom to say whatever you want, although you've implied such. you were not lacking speech but lacking the ideas to back up that speech and you have opted to punish me for this lack of ideas by responding to me and not allowing me to repond to you freely. i think it's sad . i would hope that it is not as it seems- that you take anything negative or critical as always being a form of abuse of your person or that providing you with history and facts is shutting you up. i would do no such thing but there is nothing i can do to convince you of the basic honesty and goodness of my intentions if you cannot view my objections and criticisms or concerns as legitimate and worthy of discussion, whether we may agree on the points or not, and not as a personal attack.

Why did you drag Jewish people into this? That's crazy.

I wish I knew who this anon is.

Ignorance is bliss, way to wake people up with knowledge and shake off the bliss blindfolds!

I really don't know how I ever would have grown up and understood the real world if you never came into my life. I appreciate these posts very much.

i'm just really reall old and have always liked history. i can't see the sense of learning things from reading or life experience and not sharing them or more importantly USING them. people need to understand their heritage- this is what we both come from and it was not all wine and roses for those families who managed to survive the ' coffin boats' that came over to america. starving malnourished people are an incubator for diseases like cholera especially in an enclosed environment like a ship on a journey that took weeks. those left alive were often tossed on the island outside canada where they'd crawl ashore trying to reach other humans.

black people are more than aware , if not the historical facts of their past which people who are truly evil often twist,at least that they ARE from another past then the rest of americans. well ,so are we and our experience as a race /tribe of people coming here was every bit as horrifying and damaging to our collective psyche. and we do not acknowledge it. i want fucking reparations from every fucking anglosaxon honky in america..NOW! not really, but i feel you need to know your past , not to bludgeon other people with it, but to honor your ancestors and make sure it never happens again.

there's a genocide in dafur now and china is keeping the UN from intervening. people do not learn shit. i have no faith in humans,' civilized' humans not to have holocausts and potato famines over and over and over again.

the best thing that could happen is that someone learns something from a post such as this or proves a fault in it so that it can be corrected.

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