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David Bowie - TVC15
akmed

bowie is pretty much an exercise in 'who is he ripping off/ channeling now' and you can forget about him after the mid 80s but it was his ability to effectively market himself,against all odds, to the reluctant masses in all his spaceship drag queen glory that makes him magnificent. would there be a bauhaus without a ziggy stardust? peter murphy made a career out of imitating bowie's vocal style and the fact that even kurt cobain was able to winnow out one of bowie's best , largely unknown songs is testament to his unbelievably vast influence.

in the background, most significantly, find joey aria and the grossly ignored klaus nomi- an early casualty of AIDS, abandoned on his death bed by scared fags raging with denial and cowardice. nomi was possessed of a marvelous voice and unworldly personae that was never effectively presented in recordings which are very hard to find nowadays.

this all brings me to my usual point-herein goth ignores the women and effeminate men who MADE IT. why doesn't anyone play fucking ' cat people'? did you ever watch ' the hunger' which has the added bonuses of having bowie and peter murphy in it and the sublime goddess catherine deneuve?

i sometimes feel as if the destruction, largely by AIDS, of a vast portion of the artistic and goth creating community of that particular time has left us at the mercy of underaged, straight white boys who have co-opted the scene and inflicted their lack of taste, lack of musical knowledge and apparent disdain of the feminine upon us and have refocused on the sterile repetitious dance music of the late 80s crossed with white variations of hip hop. there's no one left alive to teach them or force them to do otherwise and play what they may, renaming it goth will not make it so.


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And yes, AIDS caused a gigantic problem in the music scene. Harvey Fierstein recently went off on how because of AIDS, music got all macho, and butch again in the 90's; because so many of the really talented gay artists died.

that's what i've always considered it- what my drag queen uncle calls' the shoring up of that lost masculinity' - this focus on butch s/m stormtropper oktoberfest goosestepping ranting- a backlash brought up by the shock and horror and death toll of AIDS.

the gay contribution to dance music and djing is overwelming. AIDS devastated it and left us where we are today. you can't preserve and build on a culture that even when alive was underwraps and underground and poorly documented save in the memories of it's survivors. many mine this wealth of talent without ever truly giving it the recognition or honor it deserves.

I concur.

By the way, I actually got to witness some of the gay disco era at clubs like Paradise Garage, the occasional visit to Studio 54, and The Roxy in NYC. Those days were amazing, sans the coke everyone was shoveling up their snortholes. I never did that shit. That shit scared me.

Sadly, all of my disco records were stolen in that housebreak I told you about. I used to have some awesome 12"s by Sylvester, some really underground Gay disco songs that were never played anywhere but the clubs, and even some old obscure electronic albums, like stuff by Jarre.

I sure miss my records. :( I've tried to find a lot of that stuff, to no avail. I am not at all ashamed of liking disco. In fact, I love disco, and anyone who gives me shit about it can fuck themselves.

that music- particular the stuff you only heard in clubs was/is the basis for all this butched up crap in denial- it's all derivative of the music that was popular in gay bars.disco- the good disco that only the gays and the blacks listened to- and house music are the basis for ALL' electronic' dance culture of the 80s and 90s. period.

arthur baker, who remixed and made new order dance music royalty, came out of the new york scene( although he is actually from boston and learned to dj/remix by hanging out with the likes of danae from chaps) by creating anthems like 'IOU'- really gay disco-y songs. it was the grounds for electro and hi nrg both of which i adore, both of which contributed to house.

blue monday is the largest selling dance single of all time and it's as much nyc tape spliced pre digital disco as it is the door to ' electronic dance music'.the first place i heard it was a gay bar and it was if someone dumped ice water on my head-it left me breathless and stunned. it was everything i loved put together.or even better ' the perfect kiss'- a 10 minute song and people would dance the whole 10 minutes with a vengence. we used to go out just to dance. imagine, rather than look at someone's fucking 1977 haircut while some dj masturbates, pleasuring only himself (and whatever other ipod djs are in the room) ,with the latest obscure acid loop crap by the newest no talent probably ex-dj.

sylvester was another awesome talent. i have a lot of this music so if you want anything in particular i could copy it for you. sylvester only leads us to martha walsh and every house anthem- in fact all house anthems- of the late 80s are pretty much so because of her amazing voice.

This is one of the most interesting threads I've ever participated in, and I think you're brilliant, by the way.

I have some of the old disco stuff on burned CD's, but it's not the same. I miss the thrill of taking the big old record out of the sleeve, and placing it under the needle. I miss the record noises. I haven't gone record bin digging in a LONG time, and I really need to get back into that at some point soon.

As for "Blue Monday," I had the same sensation when I heard it for the first time. It blew me away. I hear disco, and Kraftwerk in their music. :) The first time I heard (and saw) "The Perfect Kiss" was in a movie theater in NYC. I went to see The Talking Heads flick, and the preview was that New Order video. Oh my was that good!!!

I could just go on and on about this stuff. I'll post some more later. I have to go tear apart a computer now. The fucking thing won't boot, and won't even go into setup.

Grr...




i only like mixing with vinyl (even though i have the dj cd player)because of the tactile quality and i like seeing where the needle is on the record.i would read a record by it's grooves like braille-i could mix a song on the fly never having heard it before by listening and looking at the grooves. i had a lot more control and i feel it sounds better-cds and particularly the substandard sound quality of mp3/itunes downloads are noticable if you ever knew the difference to begin with and have half an ear.

who wants to play a virtual guitar on a computer screen with a keyboard- i mean really...i want to mix not program a machine.

ive been blessed with extraordinary thrift store finds- you have to have the patience for it though. a lot of people appear to be burning all their vinyl to cd and tossing the lps out.dopes- but good for me.

i found ' set it off' by strafe-a rare classic of the sort only heard in clubs and even frigging throbbing gristle...i kind of like that you never know what youre going to get.

i only like mixing with vinyl (even though i have the dj cd player)because of the tactile quality and i like seeing where the needle is on the record.

Hell yes. I've done the same thing countless times. :)

>i would read a record by it's grooves like braille-i could mix a song on the fly never having heard it before by listening and looking at the grooves. i had a lot more control and i feel it sounds better-cds and particularly the substandard sound quality of mp3/itunes downloads are noticable if you ever knew the difference to begin with and have half an ear.<

I agree 100 percent, and again, I've done the exact same thing in the past.

>who wants to play a virtual guitar on a computer screen with a keyboard- i mean really...i want to mix not program a machine.<

Natural mixing/beatmatching is beautiful and highly under-rated these days.

>ive been blessed with extraordinary thrift store finds- you have to have the patience for it though. a lot of people appear to be burning all their vinyl to cd and tossing the lps out.dopes- but good for me.<

A long time ago, I found some amazing records in a Salvation Army bin, and they were in really good condition. I think a lot of people don't realise how beautiful records sound on a good system. But hey, more for us!

>i found ' set it off' by strafe-a rare classic of the sort only heard in clubs<

That's the Danceteria second floor sweatbox summer classic. The crowd used to go NUTS to that one. I have a copy of it on CD; which isn't as cool as having the 12 inch, but I love that song. I play that shit in my car all of the time, that, Cerrone, and Sylvester. I've gotten some pretty funny looks at stoplights. Heh... Especially when I do the 'car dance,' with my hands.

>and even frigging throbbing gristle...i kind of like that you never know what youre going to get.<

I like TG, but I'm rather partial to early Cab Voltaire, like "Live at the YMCA." It's the ultimate piss off your neighbors record. :D

Now for the what I like, don't like list.

I like: REAL gothic music, Disco, House, Hi NRG, Trance, Drum & Bass, Downtempo, Triphop, Dub Reggae, Krautrock (Can, Faust etc..,) real Punk, Spacerock, Psychedelic, some prog rock, glam rock, British Heavy Metal, Jazz (like Davis, Nina Simone, and Satchmo,) Maria Callas, pipe organ music, classic country hits of the 60's and 70's, New Wave, and very dark sounding classical.

I dislike: Nu-Metal, Hair Metal, Ballad Metal, New Country hits, American Idol, badly done EBM - where every damn song sounds the same, rap music with unintelligent lyrics, whiny singers of either gender, and new 'Hipster' bands.

Oh, and of course I forgot to mention the industrial music. I do like that stuff, especially when some of it is made by recording power tools, and when people beat on things like shopping carts while screaming.

i've been involved in annoy threads with those alleging to be djs questioning whether beat mixing is ever necessary. of course this is usually spouted by those who couldn't beat mix 2 recordings of the same bloody fucking song if you threatened to beat them to death with their goggles if they didn't do it. larry levan often didn't mix real well, in the beat matching sense, but he had a magical sense of taste and channeled the vibe of his audience and the scene perfectly. i have yet to find someone around these parts, in this time ,with a magical sense of anything (save self promotion) that would let them get away with not being able to mix in a flowing seamless way.
as far as i'm concerned you need the chops and good taste together. i learned to dj from other beat mixers the hard way- i was thrown into it and mocked mercilessly until i got it. what saved me in the learning process was that i had an innate sense of what songs fit together well and was a dancer first- i knew what would get me dancing. it helped. so many djs do not dance.
you've been elevated to the heights of super cool that you even KNOW ' set it off' as far as i'm concerned . i listen to fucking gilbert and sullivan in the car. the Mikado full blast at a stop light in somerville is pretty much and invitation to get glared at with horror from nearly everyone. then there's that egyptian disco phase i went through...

>i've been involved in annoy threads with those alleging to be djs questioning whether beat mixing is ever necessary.<

I like it. I think it helps to be close to it, if not right on. Or you can do the half time blendy thing; I hope you know what I mean by that. I don't mean to sound like a weenie.

>of course this is usually spouted by those who couldn't beat mix 2 recordings of the same bloody fucking song if you threatened to beat them to death with their goggles if they didn't do it. larry levan often didn't mix real well, in the beat matching sense, but he had a magical sense of taste and channeled the vibe of his audience and the scene perfectly. i have yet to find someone around these parts, in this time ,with a magical sense of anything (save self promotion) that would let them get away with not being able to mix in a flowing seamless way.<

I've not heard anyone do it in any sort of a spectacular way since the 80's.

>as far as i'm concerned you need the chops and good taste together.<

ABSOLUTELY! The feeling is mutual.

>i learned to dj from other beat mixers the hard way- i was thrown into it and mocked mercilessly until i got it.<

I'm sorry you were mocked. That would have pissed me off.

I was taught how to do it; a very long time ago, by occasionally assisting and or hanging out in the booth with DJ Danny, Jellybean, and Afrika Bambaataa.

>what saved me in the learning process was that i had an innate sense of what songs fit together well and was a dancer first- i knew what would get me dancing. it helped.<

Oh yes, you know the music well, so that's a great start.

>so many djs do not dance.<

I've watched one dance, :giggle: once.

>you've been elevated to the heights of super cool that you even KNOW ' set it off' as far as i'm concerned.<

Thank you. :) I can't imagine that anyone who likes ol' skool dance music wouldn't know that song. It's a real booty shaker! I like phat beats.

>i listen to fucking gilbert and sullivan in the car. the Mikado full blast at a stop light in somerville is pretty much and invitation to get glared at with horror from nearly everyone. then there's that egyptian disco phase i went through...<

This I must see one day.

Do you ever listen to new wave in the car? When I do, I like to pretend that my dashboard is my keyboard, and play it. I'm a fucking cheesehead.

I sometimes listen to talk radio, as well as those silly/fun shows on NPR on the weekend; Prairie Home Companion, and Says You.

i deserved to be mocked at first-but it fired me to want to be able to do it. ive no problem being the apprentice. too often now people don't seem to want to learn a craft, a skill from their betters- you know? to be humble and appreciate that you can learn from others. i see nothing wrong with it. i had fun. i got free drinks. i learned how the only way- by doing, failing, doing failing, trying..nothing wrong with a few hard knocks. it was nice enough they took it upon themselves to be so generous with their time and knowledge.

i like to sing ' im a very modern model of a modern major general' from hms pinafore when possessed, apparently ,by the devil on route 128 in heavy traffic...

i love new wave- it's like disco -people elevate the crap when there was so much good that came out.devo fucking rocks as far as i'm concerned. they tear 'satisfaction' a new bung hole...

i really like late night am radio- that coast coast show where rednecks reveal how they mated with aliens or where shut ins phone in to talk about theur bunions...awesome. npr used to have a show on called' found sound' which i really enjoyed. they once had cassette tapes from a guy who was killed in viet nam and taped some while he was there...i love that sort of thing.

trying to get self proclaimed ' industrial ' djs to play the cabs is like asking them to play the fucking carpenters...fucking love early cab voltaire.

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